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	<title>Comments on: will he wont he? [and a confession]</title>
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	<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/</link>
	<description>The life and education of two growing beans - our 10th year of blogging</description>
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		<title>By: Nic</title>
		<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/#comment-7316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/?p=3948#comment-7316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m definitely philosophically opposed to rewards and punishments and would favour intrinsic reward and internal satisfaction everytime. However, as Alison said there is no one size fits all and frankly I&#039;m biased to think everything my kids do is wonderful anyway so they certainly get praised. I don&#039;t like sticker charts, reward schemes or things like that but again I&#039;d probably be willing to revise that stance if one of my children suddenly started asking for them.

I would have an issue with rewarding with sweets because I do think that is setting up an unhealthy relationship with things which are bad for you. D and S certainly get their share of junk and chocolate but always because they&#039;ve asked for it while we&#039;re someone selling it, I happen to have enough money to buy it at the time and they haven&#039;t already had loads of sweet stuff that day, never as a reward for &#039;being good&#039;. I think loads of adults have massive food issues as a result of treating ourselves for &#039;being good&#039; with something bad for us.

 I don&#039;t necessarily agree with all of us work for money or we are all goal driven too and both of those ideas are ones we talk about lots here because I do believe we can unpick them further and find other ways of living. 

But, all that said, clearly all of this is working wonders for SB. She is acheiving what she sets out to do, getting satisfaction in seeing her tick boxes filled up and getting a mars bar into the bargain. It is being driven by and requested by her so if she is already able to identify her motivator, set her own goals and achieve them then that is all good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m definitely philosophically opposed to rewards and punishments and would favour intrinsic reward and internal satisfaction everytime. However, as Alison said there is no one size fits all and frankly I&#8217;m biased to think everything my kids do is wonderful anyway so they certainly get praised. I don&#8217;t like sticker charts, reward schemes or things like that but again I&#8217;d probably be willing to revise that stance if one of my children suddenly started asking for them.</p>
<p>I would have an issue with rewarding with sweets because I do think that is setting up an unhealthy relationship with things which are bad for you. D and S certainly get their share of junk and chocolate but always because they&#8217;ve asked for it while we&#8217;re someone selling it, I happen to have enough money to buy it at the time and they haven&#8217;t already had loads of sweet stuff that day, never as a reward for &#8216;being good&#8217;. I think loads of adults have massive food issues as a result of treating ourselves for &#8216;being good&#8217; with something bad for us.</p>
<p> I don&#8217;t necessarily agree with all of us work for money or we are all goal driven too and both of those ideas are ones we talk about lots here because I do believe we can unpick them further and find other ways of living. </p>
<p>But, all that said, clearly all of this is working wonders for SB. She is acheiving what she sets out to do, getting satisfaction in seeing her tick boxes filled up and getting a mars bar into the bargain. It is being driven by and requested by her so if she is already able to identify her motivator, set her own goals and achieve them then that is all good.</p>
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		<title>By: Merry</title>
		<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/#comment-7315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Merry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/?p=3948#comment-7315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well. Taking yesterday as an example, i think i agree with both sides to some extent. Fran worked really hard and didn&#039;t really get the results she deserved because on the day it didn&#039;t go as it could have. I can&#039;t imagine that anything other than &quot;you did really well and put masses of effort in and enjoyed and tried your hardest and kept smiling even when it wasn&#039;t going your way&quot; would really have done the trick.

I can&#039;t imagine &quot;thank you for inviting us to watch&quot; would have soothed the bruise and would have made me feel rubbish but on the other hand i do actually believe in effort more than results and think that praise for that is well worth it. And then, i wouldn&#039;t have patronised her by telling her she was brilliant and the judges were all wrong either.

That said, there was a dad stood next to me who had promised his daughter a dsi if she got a medal. Not sure i really thought i would have done that either - it smacked too much of &quot;please me&quot; although it equally might not have been (who am i to judge?!) - the joy of the competition was in doing her best for Fran, not getting something other than the feel of that for itself.

Which is not to say i disagree with the mars bar - we do all work to goals and children don&#039;t always have the mechanisms always for providing it. If she successfully negotiated it and both sides agree it is a fair price, why not? :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well. Taking yesterday as an example, i think i agree with both sides to some extent. Fran worked really hard and didn&#8217;t really get the results she deserved because on the day it didn&#8217;t go as it could have. I can&#8217;t imagine that anything other than &#8220;you did really well and put masses of effort in and enjoyed and tried your hardest and kept smiling even when it wasn&#8217;t going your way&#8221; would really have done the trick.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine &#8220;thank you for inviting us to watch&#8221; would have soothed the bruise and would have made me feel rubbish but on the other hand i do actually believe in effort more than results and think that praise for that is well worth it. And then, i wouldn&#8217;t have patronised her by telling her she was brilliant and the judges were all wrong either.</p>
<p>That said, there was a dad stood next to me who had promised his daughter a dsi if she got a medal. Not sure i really thought i would have done that either &#8211; it smacked too much of &#8220;please me&#8221; although it equally might not have been (who am i to judge?!) &#8211; the joy of the competition was in doing her best for Fran, not getting something other than the feel of that for itself.</p>
<p>Which is not to say i disagree with the mars bar &#8211; we do all work to goals and children don&#8217;t always have the mechanisms always for providing it. If she successfully negotiated it and both sides agree it is a fair price, why not? <img src="http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jax</title>
		<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/#comment-7314</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jax]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/?p=3948#comment-7314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[think it very much depends on the context. It works well in a classroom environment, not sure it&#039;s so good where there is an emotional attachment. 

The idea is not to try to interfere with intrinsic motivation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>think it very much depends on the context. It works well in a classroom environment, not sure it&#8217;s so good where there is an emotional attachment. </p>
<p>The idea is not to try to interfere with intrinsic motivation.</p>
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		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/#comment-7313</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alison]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 21:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/?p=3948#comment-7313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;thank you for showing me&quot;??? If an adult friend showed me something they had produced and I said &quot;thank you for showing me&quot;, I can&#039;t imagine that that would go down well. All this &quot;I can see you have really put a lot of effort into this&quot; by itself just seems so unemotional and cold-fish-like. I can&#039;t parent like that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;thank you for showing me&#8221;??? If an adult friend showed me something they had produced and I said &#8220;thank you for showing me&#8221;, I can&#8217;t imagine that that would go down well. All this &#8220;I can see you have really put a lot of effort into this&#8221; by itself just seems so unemotional and cold-fish-like. I can&#8217;t parent like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Jax</title>
		<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/#comment-7312</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jax]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/?p=3948#comment-7312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[think the montessori way of saying thank you for showing me is one way of doing recognition without providing external judgement, and is sometimes a valid approach.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>think the montessori way of saying thank you for showing me is one way of doing recognition without providing external judgement, and is sometimes a valid approach.</p>
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		<title>By: tbird</title>
		<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/#comment-7311</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tbird]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/?p=3948#comment-7311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[funny you know, because this discussion has come up in 2 other places this week.  And it really does come down to the fact that actually, we all need recognition/reward/praise whatever you want to call it.  I used to snort in derision about kids being given &quot;I was very good today&quot; stickers but actually, I&#039;ve had to eat humble pie on that one because actually, there is a little madam in this household who has positively begged for shiny stickers....  So, yes, &quot;Punishment by rewards&quot; be damned, let them earn their sweeties!!!!! (but give them random ones sometimes just for being wonderful/gorgeous/cuddly/smiley...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>funny you know, because this discussion has come up in 2 other places this week.  And it really does come down to the fact that actually, we all need recognition/reward/praise whatever you want to call it.  I used to snort in derision about kids being given &#8220;I was very good today&#8221; stickers but actually, I&#8217;ve had to eat humble pie on that one because actually, there is a little madam in this household who has positively begged for shiny stickers&#8230;.  So, yes, &#8220;Punishment by rewards&#8221; be damned, let them earn their sweeties!!!!! (but give them random ones sometimes just for being wonderful/gorgeous/cuddly/smiley&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Merry</title>
		<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/#comment-7310</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Merry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/?p=3948#comment-7310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Being moderated!!!! Outrage!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being moderated!!!! Outrage!</p>
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		<title>By: Merry</title>
		<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/#comment-7309</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Merry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/?p=3948#comment-7309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah well, have already given you my thoughts - i often feel that if a whim is indulged then it gets worked through-  less to be in therapy about later! :D

We did 20ps for a while, we don&#039;t any more because it faded. Not sure where the change occurred but it did. Doing well became an internal thing.

Am not a Alfie Kohn fan - we&#039;re all different and children and adults need different things at different times - following their lead and adapting to individuals needs seems a far better plan. My children like to know i have listened and looked and paid attention and you know, what do you say? &quot;yes but i refuse to comment&quot;? Most people would take that as a negative criticism. I&#039;ve gone for honest praise coupled with constructive criticism and some reward for effort more than success.

Really don&#039;t think this makes you a bad person!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah well, have already given you my thoughts &#8211; i often feel that if a whim is indulged then it gets worked through-  less to be in therapy about later! <img src="http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" class="wp-smiley" /> </p>
<p>We did 20ps for a while, we don&#8217;t any more because it faded. Not sure where the change occurred but it did. Doing well became an internal thing.</p>
<p>Am not a Alfie Kohn fan &#8211; we&#8217;re all different and children and adults need different things at different times &#8211; following their lead and adapting to individuals needs seems a far better plan. My children like to know i have listened and looked and paid attention and you know, what do you say? &#8220;yes but i refuse to comment&#8221;? Most people would take that as a negative criticism. I&#8217;ve gone for honest praise coupled with constructive criticism and some reward for effort more than success.</p>
<p>Really don&#8217;t think this makes you a bad person!</p>
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		<title>By: HHaricot</title>
		<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/#comment-7308</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HHaricot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/?p=3948#comment-7308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks sarah, beginning to breathe a bit about it!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks sarah, beginning to breathe a bit about it!</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/2009/10/23/will-he-wont-he-2/#comment-7307</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 08:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petitsharicots.org.uk/weblog/?p=3948#comment-7307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t see a problem at all with reward systems like this in any case. I do it to myself! (clean the bathroom then 15 mins on facebook or whatever!), and we all work for money, don&#039;t we?  
Our kids have all sorts of different reward systems in place for various things, and they know full well that they&#039;re not there to communicate love (which is unconditional), they&#039;re there to help teach them discipline in certain areas of their lives. And that&#039;s a Good Thing, I think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see a problem at all with reward systems like this in any case. I do it to myself! (clean the bathroom then 15 mins on facebook or whatever!), and we all work for money, don&#8217;t we?<br />
Our kids have all sorts of different reward systems in place for various things, and they know full well that they&#8217;re not there to communicate love (which is unconditional), they&#8217;re there to help teach them discipline in certain areas of their lives. And that&#8217;s a Good Thing, I think.</p>
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